Ballhawk League : Week 16
The weather wasn’t great this week in the eastern part of the country. Mike in Detroit attended four games, three of them had BP washed out by rain. Nick and Erik faced a similar situation, only receiving half of a BP during the entire Milwaukee Brewers series. Hopefully this week brings some sunny skies.
Our winner this week is a first time winner. It’s Alex. Below he is seen in his Orioles orange, thinking about his next move.
You can read about his ballhawking here.
Some notes:
- Happy
Youngster and Erik Jabs continue to flip flop in the standings in the
race for second place behind Zack Hample. This week, Happy has regained sole possession of second place from Erik.
- Nick Pelescak has moved into a tie for first place with Erik Jabs in the games attended category.
- Zack Hample increased his league leading total to 322, and remains on pace to snag over 500 balls.
- John Witt snagged his 3,800th career ball. He’s been at it for 33 years, a ballhawking career longer than anyone else in the ballhawk league
- Washington’s District Boy finished in a close second place this week, finishing two balls behind Alex.
How the week played out:
2009 Season Leaders:
Total Balls Snagged:
1) Zack Hample 322
2) Happy Youngster 247
3) Erik Jabs 238
Games Attended:
1) Erik Jabs 49
1) Nick Pelescak 49
2) Happy Youngster 40
Average Balls per Game:
1) Zack Hample 8.47
2) Donny Haltom 7.38
3) Greg Barasch 7.33
Hit Balls Snagged:
1) Erik Jabs 125
2) Nick Pelescak 99
3) Happy Youngster 92
Thrown Balls Snagged:
1) Zack Hample 170
2) Alex 145
3) Happy Youngster 119
Device Balls Snagged:
1) Zack Hample 69
2) Donny Haltom/Happy Youngster 36
3) Erik Jabs 35
Competition Factor:
1) Zack Hample
2) Alex
3) Greg Barasch
Week 16 Photos
Ballhawks were given the option to submit a photo for this and future ballhawk league updates. The photos could be of them making a catch, posing with a ball, a picture of a ball snagged, or something strange or interesting that they saw at a game.
Zack Hample displays two baseballs that Heath Bell gave to him on
7/23/09 at Citizens Bank Park. Heath and Zack are pals and Heath had
been saving the balls for Zack.
Erik Jabs poses near the Ohio & Erie canal, which runs behind the wall at Canal Park in Akron, Ohio. Erik would fish two balls out of the Canal, one being a game home run hit by Cleveland Indians #1 prospect Carlos Santana.
The Ballhawk League Archive:
TOP BALLHAWK:
Week 1: Happy Youngster 38 (Runner Up: Zack Hample 31)
Week 2: Zack Hample 27 (Runner Up: Erik Jabs 21)
Week 3: Zack Hample 30 (Runner Up: Erik Jabs 21)
Week 4: Zack Hample 40 (Runner Up: Happy Youngster 39)
Week 5: Zack Hample 31 (Runner Up: Erik Jabs 22)
Week 6: Erik Jabs 31 (Runner Up: The Happy Youngster 26)
Week 7: District Boy 40 (Runner Up: Greg Barasch 20)
Week 8: Erik Jabs 18 (Runner Up: Donny Haltom 17)
Week 9: Donny Haltom 16 (Runner Up: Erik Jabs 13)
Week 10: Zack Hample 27 (Runner Up: Shawn 26)
Week 11: Zack Hample 59 (Runner Up: Donny Haltom 23)
Week 12: Greg Barasch 36 (Runner Up: Nick Pelescak 22)
Week 13: Chris P 24 (Runner Up: Alex 17)
Week 14: Greg Barasch 22 (Runner Up: Chris P 19)
Week 15: Nick Pelescak 17 (Runner Up: District Boy 10)
Week 16: Alex 21 (Runner Up: District Boy 19)
mlblogscountingbaseballs
Hey, this is Alan from myGameBalls.com. I am going to mention this on the site. Did Alex have another game after the 23rd? Both his blog and his myGameBalls page only show 11 balls in 2 games. He probably just hasn’t recorded the 3rd game, but I just want to make sure.
hey, this is Alan from myGameBalls.com. I am going to mention this on the site. Did Alex have another game after the 23rd? Both his blog and his myGameBalls page show 11 balls in 2 games. He probably just hasn’t recorded it yet, but I want to make sure.
Alan, if you are readng this, could you help me out:
Can you enter coaches or umpires into the database on your site, under the “Player” category? Will the system recognize the name?
Puck – go ahead and enter coaches/players. If the system doesn’t recognize the name, select the option to add it to the database and select “Other” as the team. I’m probably going to wait until the end of the season, and at that point flag the coaches and umpires to differentiate them from the players.
Alan – I’m working on it. As you can see from subtracting 21-11 it was a pretty big day, not only in snagging. So it will probably be up by Thursday or so.
Alex
I think we need to revisit the 3rd out ball issue. I posted it on MyGameBalls.com in the forum. Yes it is partially because I got one last night but it really is a Game Ball and should be counted that way.
We all count toss up homers so toss up 3rd outs or foul balls should count as well. A game ball is a game ball no matter whether it is tossed up or caught!
What do you think?
John
Baseballs 4 MADD – MLBallhawk
http://ballhawk.mlblogs.com
http://www.mlballhawk.com
BALLHAWK on MyGameBalls.com
Hey Erik, look at a blog I posted about the Pirates. You might like the post.
http://isaosblog.blogspot.com/
A Game ball should be a ball that was used during the game, that you got ON YOUR OWN. There would be no “assist” on the play. If somebody helped you get the ball (like they tossed it to you) then it should not be a game ball.
So, toss up home runs would not count as game balls for our purposes, and neither would 3rd out balls.
However, they could count on MyGameBalls.com because that is a site to keep track of your own collection, and everybody keeps track of their collection differently. Some people count ST balls, and other count balls that other fans gave to them. That site is a personal thing, you can record the balls however you want.
But because this is a competitive league, there need to be some rules on what balls can be counted, and how they can be counted.
I agree completely with Puck on this one. There is no way in hell that a third out ball is a game ball. There are people in this league who would have like 50 game balls this season if those counted. And how is a tossed HR ball a game ball either? Counting those is beyond cheap as far as the Ballhawk League is concerned. And John, I can’t understand how you counted Ball #3800. I don’t mean to be rude, but that’s one step away from counting a Nerf baseball that gets tossed into the seats by the Party Patrol.
Well, i half agree with Greg on ball 3800, but i also agree with you John.
You did work to get a ball inside a major league stadium, but would you count a ball that you bought in the team store? you worked to earn money to buy the ball inside a major league stadium, but i dont think you would count that in your collection.
greg is completely right. the game ball would be unfair to add thrown to it. it wouldn’t show fairly the effort by some ballhwks on getting gamers themself. i know most of us here wouldn’t count that ball, kinda leaning toward pucks comparison with buying one. but it IS JOHNS collection. thts a difficult one to debate, since john has probably the most experience here. but its not our choice.
Ian,
Nice post. I remember seeing this done in the mid 90′s. Our lineup would’ve included guys like Jay Buhner and Moises Alou, etc. Another guy we let get away was Chris Young, a starting pitcher who had a few great years with San Diego. Leo Nunez, whose had a stellar career the past few seasons out of the pen. I’m probably missing some guys….
John,
By all means count tossed balls as game balls in your own collection. I think we’ll keep the rule that a game ball for the ballhawk league must be a batted ball that you snag on your own, without the assistance of any player or device. Otherwise, hardcore ballhawks that spend time planning and preparing – moving throughout the stadium to get that foul ball or home run are outclassed and would be far outnumered by someone that just stands at the dugout in proper colors to get a ball tossed to them. Congrats on 3800 though. 3800 is an impressive number. Have you made any big plans for your 4000th, a la Zack at Dodger stadium?
A game ball is a game ball no matter how you get it ……. Ok so you don’t want to count tossed up 3rd outs that’s all fine and dandy. A toss up HR ball is another story. With HR’s it’s all good if it is a toss up. My brother got a toss up of a player in the late 80′s and it was the players 100th HR and the guy from the visiting team did not know it. They asked for the ball back and he got a bat and another signed ball. That’s a HR ball caught regardless of it being tossed, caught or chased down. Toss up HR’s count, correct? I know that there are I think 3 people with toss up HR’s.
The biggest thing there is you have to be in the right place, you have to get the attention of whoever picks up the ball and for me you have to be creative in how you ask or you got no shot because 9 times out of 10 a kid will get it.
Now back to the 3rd out balls. 3rd out balls again are more of a game ball than even a foul ball. It’s Eriks league and he can count them as he wishes, I just thought we stir things up by discussing it. It worked
As for 3800, I got a ball, I was honest about how I got it, it was a Major League ball acquired at a Major League Stadium in a round about way from a Major League team. It counted and the Commish said it was cool
Greg B ………… A little rough on the comments, if you really want to go to there on how there is no way in hell you should count a 3rd out ball then let’s take that away AND DEVICE BALLS and won’t even make the case on how it is theft. HOWEVER, I am not going to get in a ridiculous argument here but if someone gets themself in position for a game ball whether foul or 3rd out it should be a game ball.
Here is the case on Device ball and you made a partial case for it in your comments ………….. “There are people in this league who would have like 50 game balls this season if those counted. And how is a tossed HR ball a game ball either? Counting those is beyond cheap as far as the Ballhawk League is concerned.” …………. Your basically saying that those that can get in position to get third out balls are in a way cheating. It might even be because at some parks it is easier to get behind the dugouts then say at New Yankee Stadium or a few other parks. So if you go with that argument then Device balls should not count either because most of us can’t use the devices at our parks.
If you look at that one objectively I think it is along the same lines.
john, gregs not saying NOT to count the third out balls at all, just not to count it AS a game ball. and in all fairness, i dont use a device either, but i dont think its stealing. so to even say, not to count it, is ridiculus. you may think its wrong to use a glove or cup trick, but many people in the league think its wrong to count a ball that you got in a raffle, too. let erik decide.
Really good point about the device balls. Like i said before, if you want to count it as a game ball in your collection, then fine, but for the league its different.
And John,if a ball rolls up against a wall, and you could bend down and pick it up with you hand, would you count it?
If you do count balls like that then you cant say a device is cheating because grabbing a ball off the field is no different that plucking one. You are still removing a ball from the field that wasnt intended for you.
1 ball vs. 100 plus ……… hmmmmmm
Puck – you’re kidding right? In no way is leaning over a wall the same as plucking a ball from 10 or 15 feet above. If a ball rolls up to the wall and you can pick it up it’s fair game. If that wall is 8, 10 or 15 feet high then you didn’t have a chance to get it and the device gives you an extra advantage. Ultimately the rant on 3rd out balls is the fact that it is an advantage over others that can’t get into those areas. The Device is an “Advantage” over those that can’t use them. I’m just sayin’!3rd out balls …….I really don’t care that much about em’ ………. I have grabbed 6 in 33 years ……… toss up HRs should count in League and actually have ……………. Device balls are Ballhawk steroids ………. it’s part of the game and accepted. I tried to stir things up and it worked
My thought is for next season maybe add these categories: Foul Balls – 3rd Out Balls – Game HR’s (hit, caught & thrown count) All counting as game balls just listed as what they are. Just a thought!
Johnhttp://ballhawk.mlblogs.com
John, I was not saying in any way that third out balls shouldn’t be counted at all, just that they shouldn’t be considered “game balls”. So I don’t know what that has to do with device balls. And when did I ever say that catching a third out ball is cheating? I catch third out balls all the time. I love third out balls. Of course it’s not cheating. I just can’t understand them being “game balls”.
So if pretty much everything you get is a game ball, shouldn’t your 3800th be a game ball too? I mean, it was rubbed up and used in a game, right?
Greg ………Ok so cheating was not the right choice but to say a 3rd out ball is not a game ball is 100% wrong. It was fair, between the lines and was the 3rd out of an inning in a game which makes it a game ball
If it is not a game ball in the Ballhawk League that’s cool and I made suggestions on next season.
By the way I never said everything I get is a game ball again I have grabbed 6 3rd out balls in 33 years which leaves 251 other games balls that I have grabbed. Even if you take out the 7 toss up HR’s I have it leave 244 game balls so I definitely do not count everything as game balls.
100 Game HR’s – 151 foul balls – 6 3rd out balls Side note on the 151 foul balls – 1 of those is a ball that came off of John Cangelosi being Hit by a pitch from Charlie Hough and bounced right to me in the first row behind home plate in Chicago in the 80′s.
3800 was a ball …….. just a ball …… even if it was rubbed up and authenticated as a game ball
Dang you kids get me fired up ;-P
Johnhttp://ballhawk.mlblogs.com
Well, if you have long arms and can reach farther to pick up a ball then you have an extra advantage too.
And if you’re fat then you take up more space on the wall, and can block people from getting into your spot so you have an extra advantage.
And there is ALWAYS a way to get into seats behind the dugout, you just need to know the NY tricks.
And what about that secret spot at Petco that TC showed Zack last year. Idk if you use that, but that would also be an extra advantage
And if some stadiums have gates that open earlier than others that ANOTHER advantage.
There are just too many variables, and at a baseball game, EVERYBODY has a change to get a hr or foul ball as long as they are in the right spot, so if some people cant get behind a dugout for a 3rd out ball, then they shouldnt be counted bc not everybody has a fair opportunity for them. Everybody can make a device if they want to but not everybody can sneak past security.
And BTW Erik, fell better!
That’s just to dumb to respond to!
well counting a ball that u won in a raffle,that may be just to dumb to respond to 2! east coast vs west coast on here.
Yes it was dumb! Im just showing everybody how many stupid ways you can take this. Some people just have advantages over others. You cant make everything perfectly fair. Its just too hard.
If 3rd out balls counted as game balls, then lots of people with adavtages (getting behind dugouts) would be recording tons of game balls when people who dont have advantages work hard to corretly position themesleves for the much harder foul balls and home runs, and odds are they wont get as many game balls.
If we counted 3rd out balls as game balls, it would create an uneven playing field for that category. They can count as total balls or thrown balls, but not game balls.
And John dont repremand Greg for a “harsh” comment because i tohught you made a kinda harsh comment to me.
And BTW everybody should just kinda look at this as a heated discussion, because it would be stupid to have a giant fight over something like this.
And John, yo justified ball 3800 because you got it in a ML stadium, at a ML gtame, from a ML team. A device ball meets those criteria, so if you count ball 3800 then you have to count device balls.
A game ball should be a ball that went directly from the field of play, into the stands, then into your glove WITHOUT being in somebody else’s possesion before you aquired it
And my comment about grabbing a ball off the field is totally valid because you are still taking a ball off of the field that wasnt intended for you to take.
And under you count 3rd out balls as agme balls then 3 yr olds can get game balls, but how many 3 yr olds could catch a HR or foul ball…
Let’s not bash each other too much here, okay? Remember, we’re all baseball fans who share a passion for ballhawking. To be fair to everyone, I think we need to have more specific categories. Game home run balls should be broken down into three categories: caught on the fly, picked up off the ground, and tossed by a player. I once got a game homer tossed up (hit by Mel Hall; tossed by Von Hayes in ’92) but I don’t even count it in my “game balls” category. Third-out balls are obviously “game-used” but there’s no way (in my opinion) that they should be counted the same as foul balls. It’s much much much harder to get a foul ball during a game than it is to get a third-out ball. An interesting experiment for next season might be to assign certain point values for every type of ball, just as major league relievers get (and lose) points for various accomplishments (relief win, save, tough save, blown save, etc.). A game homer could count as 10 points, a ground-rule double during a game could count as nine, foul ball eight, third-out ball seven, etc. and we could take it all the way down to the easiest type of ball that you could snag during BP, for example having an usher hand one to you that landed in the seats before you got there. I don’t know. Obviously these aren’t the exact point values that we would choose, but you get the idea. It could make for an interesting winter of debates. Then we could have two categories in the league next year: most balls and most points. Thoughts? (BTW, it’s absolutely POURING right now in New York City. Good Lord.)
Always the diplomat Zack ……….. by the way device balls would be 1pt
Did anyone notice that there are only 4 people in the Ballhawk League that have more HIT balls that thrown/device combined?
Of those Nick P. is just about 2/1 hit to thrown and I am right around 2.75 hit to thrown balls.
That is the stat that seperates the Ballhawks from the Ballsnaggers ;-P
Enjoy Week 18 ………. it is unlikely I will get to a game
John
Baseballs 4 MADD – MLBallhawk
http://ballhawk.mlblogs.com
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@mlballhawk on Twitter
Has anybody ever noticed that the only people who think the use of a ball-retrieving device is stealing are the people who are too dumb to develop one themselves?
And since when are hit balls so high and mighty? Screw that. I’m sick of that old-school logic.
God dammit Greg! I thought this would be over!
Alright, enough arguing. john, i know u were messin @ first and liked stirring things up, and it was ok. but now were kinda sounding like 2 year olds, myself including. c’mon, bragging how impressive your hit to thrown ratio is, thts childish. ballhawking is our hobby, not politics, and this is the BALLHAWK LEAGUE. not the
BALLHAWK DEBATE.